Prabhupada

April 23, 1972. Tokyo, Japan.

During a gathering of devotees and guests, Karandhara Dasa, a disciple of Srila Prabhupada, reads from the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Canto 2, Chapter 9, Text 1:

Parasya—of the pure soul; anubhava-atmanah—of the purely conscious; na—never; ghateta—it can so happen; artha—meaning; sambandhah—relation with the material body; svapna—dream; drastuh—of the seer; iva—like it; anjasa—completely.

Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, there is no meaning to the relationship of the pure soul in pure consciousness with the material body. It is just like the dreamer seeing his own body working.

Prabhupada: 

So, purport?

Karandhara reads: 

Purport: The question of Maharaja Pariksit is perfectly answered as to how a living entity began his material life, although he is apart from the material body and the mind.

Prabhupada: 

It is a very important question. Pariksit Maharaja inquired—many people inquired—so, "How the living entity was with Krishna, he became fallen in this material world?" So this question is answered here, that "How the living entity who was with Krishna became fallen down in contact with these material qualities." So this is the answer. Read the translation.

Karandhara reads: 

Translation: Sri Sukadeva Gosvami said: O King, unless one is influenced by the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead...

Prabhupada: 

It is simply the influence of the material energy, nothing...

Actually he has not fallen. 

The other example is given: just like the moon is covered with scattered cloud, the passing cloud. You have seen. Everyone has experience. The cloud passes, and it appears that the moon is moving. Have you seen this?

Devotees: 

Yes.

Prabhupada: 

Actually, the moon is not moving.. It is maya, illusion. It appears that the moon is moving. 

But similarly, the living entity, because he is a spiritual spark of the Supreme, it has not fallen. It has not fallen. But he is thinking:

"I am fallen."

"I am material." 

That is the reason. 

He is thinking:

"I am this body." 

Actually, the body has no connection with me. That is experienced, that the body has no connection with the soul. The body is changing, dying, but I am the same. 

The same example, the moon: The cloud is passing over in different way. The moon is far away from the cloud, and it has nothing to do with the cloud, but it appears the moon is moving.

Try to understand. Have "question and answer." It is very important thing. 

Atma-mayam rte rajan. Except atma-maya, the illusory energy... It is the maneuver or handling of the illusory energy of Krishna. This illusory energy develops when we forget Krishna. That's all. In other words, this illusory identification of me with the body is simply due to my forgetfulness. 

We wanted to forget; we wanted to give up Krishna and wanted to enjoy this material world. Therefore Krishna is giving us...

Just like when you play some part in a drama, if you feel that "I am king," then you can talk very nicely. And if you feel that "I am Karandhara," then you cannot play nicely. Is it not? 

Feeling must be there. If you are playing the part of a king, then you must have the same courage and belief that "I am king." You have to forget that you are Karandhara. Then your part will be very nicely played. It will be appreciated. 

But if you think simultaneously that "I am Karandhara, I am playing the part of the king," then you cannot play.

So because we wanted to play the part of Krishna, enjoyer, Krishna is giving us chance that:

"You feel like Me—'I am king.' 'I am Krishna.' 'I am God.' " 

All these rascals, those who are feeling like that:

"I am master." 

"I am king." 

"I am Krishna." 

"I am God." 

They are all simply in that feeling only. That's all. And this feeling is created by Krishna: 

"All right."

"You want to play the part of a king?"

"I shall train you in such a way." 

Just like the dramatic director means, he creates a feeling. His direction is nothing but how to feel.

Sometimes we played in our younger age Caitanya-lila. I introduced. And one big director, Amrita Lal Ghosh, he was just like grandfather; he was one of the, just like in England, Shakespeare and others, big, big dramatic, well-known persons. This Amrita Lal Ghosh and Girish Chandra Ghosh, they introduced in India theatric. 

So we called him to give us direction. He was giving us direction, and repeatedly he was telling that "You feel like that," especially to me. "You feel like that." 

So actually, when we played according to his direction, the audience were all crying. And we could not understand how they cried. We could not understand. On the stage when we played, it was so perfect that all audience were crying. Actually we saw they were smearing over their eyes with... But the whole thing is artificial, but the effect to the audience became so nice. 

So similarly, we are... Actually, we have nothing to do with this material world. But we have been trained by the illusory energy in such a way that we are thinking:

"I am Indian." 

"I am American." 

"I am this." 

"I am that." 

"I am brahmana." 

"I am sudra." 

"I have to do this." 

"I have got so much duty."

All these are illusions, simply thinking. We have nothing to do with all this nonsense, but still, we are taking it very serious: 

"I have to do like that." 

"I have to do like that."

"I am this."

"I am that." 

That's all. That is explained. 

Atma-mayam rte rajan.

"Except the influence of that atma-maya, the illusory energy of Krishna..." 

Atma-maya. Read. Atma-mayam rte rajan parasyanu... Read it.

Karandhara: 

Parasyanubhavatmanah.

Prabhupada: 

Parasyanubhavatmanaḥ. Na ghateta artha-sambandha. 

There cannot be any relation at all. 

Na ghateta. 

Cannot be. 

Artha sambandhaḥ. Svapna-drastur ivanjasa. 

The very exact example is given: svapna-drastuh. 

Just like a man seeing a dream: 

"Oh, there is tiger, tiger, tiger, tiger! Save me!" 

He is crying. 

Another man says:

"Where is tiger? Why you are crying? Where is tiger?" 

But he, in the dream, he is actually feeling, "the tiger has attacked me." 

Therefore this example is given: na ghatetartha-sambandhah. 

There cannot be any meaning of this relationship except like a man dreaming, and he is creating a situation. He is dreaming there is a tiger and he is creating a situation, a fearful situation. Actually there is no cause of fear. There is no tiger. That situation is created by a dream. Actually there is no tiger. 

Similarly, we have created this material world and activities. People are ruminating:

"I am the manager." 

"I am the factory owner." 

"I am this." 

"I am that." 

"We have got these politics." 

"We have to defeat such competitors." 

All these things are created exactly like that—svapna-drastur ivanjasa—just like a man is creating his particular situation simply by dream. That's all.

So the answer is, when somebody asks you "When one has come in contact with this material nature?" He has not come in contact. He is thinking by the influence of the external energy, just like the same example: 

A man is dreaming. There is no contact with a tiger. 

Actually he has no contact with that. 

Similarly, actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen.

But we have created a situation that we are... Try to understand this point. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation; Krishna has given us a situation. 

Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, so Krishna has given us an opportunity: 

"All right, imitate."

"You want to be imitation king on the stage."

"So feel like this."

"Play like this."

"Do like this."

"People will applaud: 'Oh, a very nice king. Very nice.' "

So everyone in this material world, they are playing some part. They wanted:

"I want to be prime minister." 

"I want to become very big business magnate." 

"I want to be leader." 

"I want to be a philosopher." 

"I want to be a scientist." 

So all this nonsense, they are trying to play. Krishna is giving them the opportunity: 

"All right." 

But it is nonsense, all nonsense. Simply dreaming. Just like you are dreaming. Next moment when the dream is gone, everything is finished. No more tiger, no more jungle, no more... Everything is finished. 

Similarly, so long this body is continuing, I am thinking:

"I am a responsible leader."

"I am this."

"I am that." 

But as soon as this body is finished, oh, these thoughts are gone.

Sarva-haras caham. Krishna says, "I am death. I take it away, all, everything. Gone." 

Now just think of our past life. Suppose I was a king or something like that. From Bhrigu-samhita it was ascertained, they said—I do not know—that I was a big physician in my last life, very spotless character, no sin, like that. He explained to me. So it may be. But actually I have no remembrance that I was a physician. What do we know? I might have been a very big physician, influential physician, having a good practice, but where is it all? All gone. 

So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like a dream. 

Actually we are not fallen. 

Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krishna consciousness. 

As soon as we understand that

"I have nothing to do with."

"I am simply Krishna's servant."

"Eternal servant."

"That's all." 

Immediately he becomes liberated. Exactly like that: as soon as you... Sometimes we do that. When the fearful dreaming becomes too much intolerable, we break the dream. We break the dream; otherwise it becomes intolerable. 

Similarly, we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krishna conscious: "Oh, Krishna is my eternal master. I am His servant." That's all. This is the way. 

Actually we are not fallen. There cannot be any falling. 

The same example: actually there is no tiger; it is dreaming. 

Similarly, our fallen condition is also dreaming. We are not fallen. 

We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. So if you study all these verses very nicely, you get all this knowledge quickly. Now what is the purport? Come on.

Karandhara reads:

The spirit soul is distinct from the material conception of his life.

Prabhupada: 

Yes. Distinct. Always distinct. Next?

Karandhara reads: 

But he is absorbed in such a material conception because of being influenced by the external energy of the Lord, called atma-maya. This is already explained in the First Canto in connection with Vyasadeva's realization of the Supreme Lord and His external energy. The external energy is controlled by the Lord, and the living entities are controlled by the external energy.

Prabhupada: 

Krishna said, mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. 

"As soon as one surrenders unto Me, he has no more illusion." 

Mayam etam taranti. Immediately. 

So people are conditioned, encaged. So many big, big words. The Mayavadis, they are undergoing austerities and penances just to become liberated. Yogis, they are also trying to become one. So many endeavors are going on. 

But the simple process is, as soon as you surrender, that you are not fallen: 

"It was illusion."

"I was dreaming."

"I am Krishna's." 

Finished. All gone. 

"I am Krishna's."

"I am Krishna's eternal servant."

He immediately becomes liberated. Just try to understand. Immediately, within a second. Liberation can be attained within a second, provided we abide by the order of Krishna. 

Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. 

This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. 

So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated. 

Is there any difficulty to understand? Just see how important this verse is. It is already there, but you are not reading. Each verse, read every day carefully. Try to assimilate, understand, and you will get more profit, every day hundred years forward, hundred years forward. Yes. They are so important verses. How nicely composed by Vyasadeva. In two lines the whole thing is explained. This is called sastra. In two lines. 

[Break]

Trivikrama: 

Srila Prabhupada, you were just saying that we are not fallen, actually it is an illusion, thinking that we are fallen.

Prabhupada: 

The same example: In dream I am not attacked by the tiger, but I am thinking, "Oh, tiger is there." It is a simply dreaming condition. 

So as soon as you understand that "I am not in contact with tiger. It is all a dream," then you are delivered. Similarly, as soon as you understand, "All this material condition of life we are simply dreaming; I am actually servant of Krishna," then you are liberated. That is Krishna consciousness. If you keep in Krishna consciousness, that "I am eternal servant of Krishna," then you are liberated. 

Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate.

Krishna says, immediately brahma-bhutah. 

Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati. 

He has no more lamentation, no more hankering. 

Samah sarvesu bhutesu.

He can see everyone with equal vision. Because he knows:

"Here is also another living entity."

"He is not a Chinaman."

"He is a part and parcel of God."

"He is not a Christian."

"He is not a Hindu."

"He is simply thinking like that." 

So give him Krishna consciousness. That is real benefit, to bring him to the original position. Yes?

Cintamani: 

If, when we realize Krishna, then we have no more desires, then how can we desire...

Prabhupada: 

You create desire. If you simply keep this contact with Krishna, then there is no more any other desire than to serve Krishna. That's all.

Trivikrama: 

This feeling that we have that we are fallen, that we are very fallen...

Prabhupada: 

That is also illusion. That is also illusion. You are fallen means you have got some certain desires except service of Krishna. Therefore the conclusion is that if you keep yourself tightly in Krishna's service, there is no question of falling down or there is no question of maya. You see?

Devotee: 

Even at that state, still the body is affected by the modes of nature. We are experiencing desires.

Prabhupada: 

You are not experiencing; your body is experiencing. You are feeling cold due to this body. You are not feeling cold. You are so... You are not feeling cold.

Devotee: 

But I think I am feeling cold.

Prabhupada: 

You are thinking—that is illusion. That is illusion.

Devotee: 

To rise above that.

Prabhupada: 

Yes. But not artificially, but this is the fact. You have to gradually rise to that platform. The fact is this. Just like when you are feverish, actually you are healthy, but it has come. So in the feverish condition you are thinking, "I am now feverish." But this feverish condition will not stay. You will come to the healthy stage. Therefore don't be disturbed with the feverish condition. Go on with your duty. Don't misidentify, "Now I have become feverish. Everything is finished." No. That is external. It has come; it will go. 

That is given in the Bhagavad-gita: 

matra-sparsas tu kaunteya sitosna-sukha-duhkha-dah.

 Just like seasonal changes. Sometimes it is very hot, sometimes very cold, sometimes warm. So these are coming and going. So if there is some feeling of pain and pleasure, simply just tolerate it, but don't be absorbed in that. That's all. 

Therefore titiksava. The first symptom of a saintly person is titiksava, tolerant, tolerance. 

So, go on reading. Go on understanding. Everything will be clear.